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Rant
Jan 8, 2010 14:29:54 GMT -5
Post by Drozgul on Jan 8, 2010 14:29:54 GMT -5
I swear to god. References that I don't like are pushing my buttons and pushing me over the edge.
I can only take so many more uses of certain terms when they are being associated with gaming. Naming them of course only provokes their use.
But using them with too great of frequency will knife my future gaming projects with this group.
Why do you game? If its to battle each other, your WoW and XBox are sitting right there waiting for you.
I do not, have not, can not, and WILL not ever play a role playing game for the sole purpose of "trumping" the other players. I make friendly. I give reasons for team play. And I open my house and table to others who also would like to play a game in this fashion.
No one should have to drive across town to play a game where they will be brushed away from the limelight, forced into submission, and ousted by "stronger" players. IF I have ever done that to anyone, I apologize. The intention of a game is for all of its players to have fun, playing together. And in the case of roleplaying games (particularly ones with groups that can fill a room) we should play as a team, that gets along, and watches each others' backs. Not necessarily best friends, not siblings, or lovers. But combined for a SAME GOAL that drives us forward as colleagues, allies, teammates, at the very least.
Villainous, antagonist, trouble-makers need not apply. Thank you. I do not speak for other GMs, just for myself. If this message speaks to you as a player, you know what you should do, you're just likely too damned stubborn to just do it.
Conflict is the heart of drama, but inter-party conflict (while great in a movie) makes players feel isolated, flattened, and held-back after spending hours getting ready to just start playing a game. One that eats up a mark of "real estate" on their schedule, one that requires some of their personal creative spunk, and one that will already be a challenge enough, should the game be run well.
A game without challenges is usually no fun. I can admit that. But playing a tyrant, or a slave-driver, or anything like that is completely missing the essence of a team oriented game centered around protagonistic characters. There are games for villains. For evil. For tyrants. Go to them, or start your own. Please, please, please, please, PLEASE stop making me work twice as hard as a GM to wrangle half the players into taking action, while simultaneously leaving enough patience left to harness trouble-makers from destroying the entire party from the inside.
Thank you...I will breathe now. But I'm watching you.
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Fenix
Journeyman
Who in the hell do you think I am?
Posts: 162
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Rant
Jan 10, 2010 1:12:25 GMT -5
Post by Fenix on Jan 10, 2010 1:12:25 GMT -5
Watching us?? Well I personally feel violated.
But anyway, why don't you really tell us how you feel? It's better to get it all out, that way you won't randomly just snap out. Hmm too late I guess. I say rant and rave and release the stress so it doesn't eat at you.
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Lady Masquerade
Journeyman
Look into my eyes. Do you see who I see?
Posts: 174
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Rant
Jan 10, 2010 12:47:14 GMT -5
Post by Lady Masquerade on Jan 10, 2010 12:47:14 GMT -5
What's the matter with personal violation? You don't seem to mind any other time.
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Fenix
Journeyman
Who in the hell do you think I am?
Posts: 162
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Rant
Jan 10, 2010 16:02:07 GMT -5
Post by Fenix on Jan 10, 2010 16:02:07 GMT -5
Well that's I knew about it then, but since he is married now and angry while watching me, it is a little disturbing.
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Rant
Jan 13, 2010 16:18:02 GMT -5
Post by reigneer on Jan 13, 2010 16:18:02 GMT -5
Woot! Nice rant. Hope you feel better. I don't know what kind of player I would be classified as, maybe that's partially because I don't believe I know all of the classifications of characters. I'll let you be the judge when the time comes. But I agree there is a time and a place for games that involve people at each others throats, if the one character is a...Prick... then I could see him getting ganged up on. But one of the games I played I called a "Paranoia" Game. all the characters were literally out to get one another for 1 reason or another. but you weren't supposed to initiate the killing of anyone but the name you had. If someone attacked you of course it was fair game. The rules could be varied where you would have to get the other character to reveal pieces of themselves to make sure you had the right mark. Maybe you only had a description, or pieces of their name, or perhaps a personality type. I personally enjoyed it from time to time.
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Rant
Jan 13, 2010 18:25:13 GMT -5
Post by Drozgul on Jan 13, 2010 18:25:13 GMT -5
As you say. There is a time and place. With ten players, this is neither.
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Rant
Jan 13, 2010 21:32:41 GMT -5
Post by labael on Jan 13, 2010 21:32:41 GMT -5
Dogs because ice cream has no bones! I have very little understanding in any of this. We need our veteran players to stand up, and support the other players as mentors!! Please brothers stop taking the spot light and drag you new friends into the light of rp. It's hard yes, but this I think was the point of the Bard in D&D of 3.5. You are the mentor, the supporter, the muse, my brethren. I'm drunk by the way so take my wisdom or not. I'm quite insightful with a few South of Heavens in me.
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Fenix
Journeyman
Who in the hell do you think I am?
Posts: 162
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 1:10:27 GMT -5
Post by Fenix on Jan 14, 2010 1:10:27 GMT -5
I am wondering something, and maybe you guys as a group can answer this question for me. At what point does someone become a veteran player? What? do you have to play some many hours of D&D, learn and play at least 3 different systems, or maybe you just make the claim and when no one denies it, its so. I don't know about you guys, but I for one am always learning new things even about a game I have played for years. I have never considered myself a veteran player, just one that plays. Also does being a veteran play mean you are great at RP (if you answer yes please hit yourself for me). It doesn't cause I have seen "veteran" players that know the system inside and out not bring any life to their character, while "newbs"to a system bring a character worth remembering. I am not saying all "veteran" players are like this, but enough that the term is bittersweet to me at least. I was always under the impression that we as players are suppose to learn and enjoy the system we choose to play in. Not make it hell for other players or the DM. We each have our faults, and our strengths so it evens out. Now take a player that HAS to play a certain way, and no one else's option matters. Well that is a quick end to ruin a game. Instead of telling everyone 99 reason why any given group can't work, why not find the one reason to make it work. This doesn't mean "hand-hold'; another term used in conversation, but we as a group have never made a "hand-holding' game. The best examples I could give would be Lord of the Rings, or the Justice League, hell even the League of Extraordinary Gentleman is a good example of a team that works and each person is unique. The closest thing we have in recent times that even approached that was Rock's Burning Wheel game, which sadly fell through. We were on the right track, and had spend 5 weeks working on reasons to work together and back story. Where did it go wrong? Well can all point our fingers here or there, but if anything I hoped we learn from our mistakes and are making attempts to fix them (if you say I didn't mess up blah, blah blah. Please stop and think cause chances are you have messed up and are to blind by your ego to see your mistake not matter how small. I know I have messed up, and I ask what I can do to fix it) No one wants to tell their friends that they messed up due to fear of making them mad and then not speaking. Well friends will listen and as long as you don't yell or demean them chances are they will be offended by what you have to say. We all get together to play a game and have fun, the second that you are no longer having fun is when you should stop playing and find a game where you have fun. This was going through my head all day at work today so I figured that the Rant post was the best place to but my thoughts down. And if I offended anyone....well grow up>
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rlandis
Journeyman
FOR THE EMPIRE!
Posts: 224
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 1:40:18 GMT -5
Post by rlandis on Jan 14, 2010 1:40:18 GMT -5
To Brian: Welcome to Rp. People will be just like their char's. Dramatic, the idea of Rp is at times just(And for some is) acting. One wants to be in the center ring with the spot light just on them. Sadly, that is human nature.
Now, over time in Rp, when people see something good, they wanna get into it. Only problem is, too many "good" spices in a pot make a bad pudding. Each player brings a flavor, and I have noticed the games have too much flavor. Thats 6+ people trying to get their character, their CHILD, to be the best it can be. No one wants a dull boring character that does nothing, which causes problem.
One Gm, 10 characters. Each char has their own goals, be it simple or extream. I by no means, will defend someone who wants to be the hero, but at the same time I can't blame them. . . C'mon, you didn't once think "Shit, it would be awesome to Aragorn in Lotr. Get the Sword, the chick, and the kingdom." That is DnD at heart, that IS roleplay. Putting on the mask of another living creature and playing it out. Not everyone has the Ego of Napoleon, but a character without drive causes a stagnate character. With all things, you need a balance.
The best group I have ever found was 4 people, we sat together and roleplayed our chars. We didn't do anything wild or crazy all we did was Role up 4 characters, gave each other a Light Rp background (IE, came from this country, follows this religion). We then moved on and gave Birth to this char as we went along. Characters made TOGETHER on the FLY, are the BEST.
I have found we have strayed away from giving birth to good characters and we have started to Genetically engineer super children. No longer do we have Characters with big flaws but big strengths, a balanced character. Now, we have Super Sayan characters with an Extream back story so thick Tolkien couldn't touch it. SHIT, the stuff I've seen as of late, is SO complicated for a character who will use it once, maybe twice, that it goes to waste. When stuff like that goes to waste, people get pissed and fluffy about it. . . Which leads us back to the "I want to be the center" problem.
WE ARE ALL guilty of it. No if's and's or but's. I am, you are, she is, and he is. ALL ARE.
To say otherwise gives proof you are wrong.
Contradiction for the sake of contradiction is NEVER cool.
To Alex: I call myself a Veteran Player of WoW, which by right I am called that on WoW by other players even.
In DnD, I know the system like shit, and thats pretty damn evident. By no means a Vet in that.
TT rping I'm touch and go when it comes to Experience, I've seen a shit load but I'm still tweaking chars to the point of almost playing Extreams. I went from Rossenieth the Ego Maniac, to Mihkail the "rock" character that doesn't want to move.
I have found, with age, much like most things, people think it gets better. False, it only gets older.
When we started, we all knew what got us hooked. Each a different thing, but I KNOW, 100% we have moved away from what hooked us to what we thought were "better" ways.
I find Have'n a group that wants to go about killing elite "things" while having a complex inner party relationship that developers OVER TIME to be interesting. I enjoy a good Dungeon crawl, but I love a good game of "party" vs the Big baddy that is a mentle game. Draws people together against a single enemy that one on one will DEFEAT YOU. Prevents heroes as a single man WILL be defeated. Requires you to think and work as a group.
I know others enjoy similar things or even the opposite. But I feel two things are common, people either walk into the game with only "RP" in mind, or "Dice rolling" in mind. When we ALL started, we had a BALANCE. It was "I want to do this." "roll for it." "I failed." "Okay, this is what happens. . ."
BOOM, rp moment that happens to your char, BOOM, a moment your char has to talk and interact with the group. BOOM a moment to THINK another way around this problem.
At times people, Your char grows MORE from failure, then they do from sitting down for 4 hours giving them a perfect history about their third uncle's cousin.
In RP, its okay to fail. As long as you pick yourself back up and try again.
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 4:38:31 GMT -5
Post by Drozgul on Jan 14, 2010 4:38:31 GMT -5
I am no stranger to a spotlight. But I am saddened that the farther I stray from one the harder it beckons me like a wraith to the one ring. I watch the party from my perch, awaiting their need of my services, usually to find they are never needed. RP has been my most clever ally and my most seductive mistress. I am lulled to it like a small child.
I love to see the worlds we create unfold. In fact I study and plan hard to create because I despise disappointing those who rise to the call when I offer one. I pine to see a room full of people, eyes wide as their unbreakable smiles. The asses clenched to the last inches of the seat beneath. Another roll, another chance, one more chase, battle, scene. Ah it makes my heart healthy!
I will admit, much of my hesitation as a player of late I firmly believe has had likely much to do with having already seen the ratio of pleasing games to displeasing ones tip against favor long ago.
We all have preferences, we all have strengths, we all have passion for something do we not?
Therefore I will use Landis' words as a challenge to you all.
What first brought you to the gaming table? Who? What game? Who was your first character? Was he/she worth remembering?
Please describe honestly what fuels your passion for role playing games. What is your favorite character from any non role playing experience you've had that has inspired you most? What made the best game experience you've ever had?
If you don't feel the answers belong here, start a new thread, and direct everyone to it!
I miss the old days of gaming, but let us move forward, Landis was right. It's just old now. Great, sure. Fun, absolutely. But gone. I am looking to this next generation to be the one to help usher my children into gaming, so there had better be something worth pulling up a chair for.
Nine. ... Nine characters in my next upcoming game is what has been slated. Wow! I want to make it one of my best ever. It certainly has a chance. Help me set the bar? Help me attempt to emulate, if not recreate great Storytelling. It's only half my story afterall.
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rlandis
Journeyman
FOR THE EMPIRE!
Posts: 224
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 8:02:04 GMT -5
Post by rlandis on Jan 14, 2010 8:02:04 GMT -5
Golam. A Human Barbarian of Middle eastern birth. He was my first TT character.
My First RP character was Lorn Bloodfang, an online Rp char.
Both gave me one thing, which I will never forget. A fun Rp.
I enjoyed my first experiance, I talked in character and when I'd drop the accent and talk in ooc, all I would ask would be "Can I do that?" to which the response is "You can, but can your char?" So quickly I'd toss down a roll and rp what his failure was. I wouldn't put all my faith in the dice, but just like swear words, I made the dice enhance the rp. Gave it more life because at times, shit doesn't go the way you want it.
I enjoyed that, classic DnD style Roleplay. No offense ment, but everyone wants to make a Table Top Character into a Character from an Act, movie, or Play. Which is great for Dialoge and so forth, but Dice and other characters are that characters BANE.
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 16:52:50 GMT -5
Post by rjrock85 on Jan 14, 2010 16:52:50 GMT -5
Baradd, Whisper Gnome Assassin: One of my favorites because I enjoyed Roleplaying a sinister, arrogant bastard; he had the stats to back up that arrogance and enhance his survivability when shit got dicey; and he had a defined role within the party, it was rare for me to be sitting there wondering "Would I be stepping on another player's toes if I do this?"...that is if I wanted Baradd to care. All in all, there was a nice balance or crunch and fluff. L'brassik, Lizardfolk Barbarian: Another one of my favorites. I enjoyed playing as the comic relief without actually being comic relief. He himself was serious, but the situations and conversations in which he was placed mixed with his lack of knowledge of the humans and never ending quest to eat new kinds of meat made for much hilarity I had a rock within the party on whom I could always rely, Skruut. There wasn't much in the way of crunch, so this character was very much on the fluff side...not to say he wouldn't be capable when the shit hit the fan. Altogether, what draws me into the game after I'm at the game table? Action, I do love me some dead enemies collapsed at my feet. Inter-party relationships, I need to be drawn into and enjoy the other characters sitting at the table (this has been lacking of late, not that the characters aren't interesting...just my characters can't seem to get along with the selfish bastards )...I need a teammate, I need a rock. And finally, a good story to latch onto. It doesn't have to be a great piece of artwork or an extended metaphor for something...it just has to provide interesting twists and opportunities for me to make a difference and be a hero or not. There are times when playing D&D or any other RPG for that matter, when I think we've lost sight of the G in the genre...Game. We sit down to play this game together, and we end up not actually playing a game at times. I'm not advocating against Roleplaying or Storytelling, not in the slightest. I'm just saying that if the dice (or whatever conflict resolution object is used) or rules aren't implemented, we aren't playing a game and it shouldn't be advertised that way. If we really want to sit down and let our creative juices flow and collectively tell a story with no aspect of gaming in sight, we should just be pitching ideas and collaborating to write a book...not that anything is wrong with writing a collaborative novel, I'm just saying that I'm at the table to play a Role Playing Game. Not just to play a game and not just to roleplay. And if I just wanted to play a game, there are plenty of non-roleplaying games for me to enjoy so why would I want to play D&D without the roleplay. Just my thoughts.
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 22:00:30 GMT -5
Post by labael on Jan 14, 2010 22:00:30 GMT -5
Ryan and Brian brought me to Rp. I was a fighter/wizard because I was infatuated with the Knights of the Thorn of Dragonlance. He was not worth remembering.
Roleplay speaks to me on so many levels. It has the story telling aspect that my ancestors did. It allows me to be an actor without the fear of the audience. It allows me to make a story and not need much in the way of grammar or spelling. It's a time to see my friends and socialize. It's a time where my imagination can flourish.
Let's see what has inspired my Rp. "Q" from Star Trek. Malcolm McDowel in Star Trek. Gully Dwarves from Krynn. Raistlin Majere. Kender. Dwarven Berserkers in Faerun. Dr. Who.
Favorite Characters: Corin Thistlebottom the kleptomaniac halfling, Chaos Pandemonium Disorder Mark 1 & 2 because he was crazy and fun, Shump and Unethiroyl were both awesome too in WOW.
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 22:07:13 GMT -5
Post by labael on Jan 14, 2010 22:07:13 GMT -5
I'm just saying that if the dice (or whatever conflict resolution object is used) or rules aren't implemented, we aren't playing a game and it shouldn't be advertised that way. If we really want to sit down and let our creative juices flow and collectively tell a story with no aspect of gaming in sight, we should just be pitching ideas and collaborating to write a book...not that anything is wrong with writing a collaborative novel, I'm just saying that I'm at the table to play a Role Playing Game. Not just to play a game and not just to roleplay. And if I just wanted to play a game, there are plenty of non-roleplaying games for me to enjoy so why would I want to play D&D without the roleplay. Just my thoughts. Ya we could just break out the mini's and play the miniature game. Or run battle simulator with 3.5 or 4ed. But even after I bought that stuff I played once and wasn't satisfied. I also got the impression that everyone else wasn't either. If I look back at times where we just roleplayed without sheets and dice it felt the same. There was no life in the character. I could not see this person or army grow. . .develop. It was stagnant.
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Rant
Jan 14, 2010 22:08:15 GMT -5
Post by labael on Jan 14, 2010 22:08:15 GMT -5
In the words of the actor. . ."What's my motivation?"
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