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Post by roborob on Dec 16, 2009 0:21:52 GMT -5
Werewolf + Window + Gaffling = Deathrage. recently in a campain of werewolf the forsaken my character matt was in the spirit world hunting anger gafflings to try to get them to flee and follow them to their boss. well matt and his two packmates find one inside a house and plan on scareing it. matt takes his place at the front window. gerard (sorry alex if the spelling is off ( i am sure it is ) ) sneaks into the inside, and fisher awaits outside. as gerard runs in snarling in matt in near wolf form charges and jumps into the window. but requireing 2 sucesses is hard for a 400 lb werewolf and hits the glass like a bug. this angers matt who shifts to war form and looses his mind and bashes on the wall around the window instead of the window (communication error with the gm but my fault so i let it go) mean while gerard desides to take a nip out of the gaffling and it dies. matt fails save vs deathrage and goes beserk. gerard trys to escape from matts rage by sneaking out the back door. yes matt still can't break a window. gerard fails to sneak and steps on a squeak toy and matt barrels over the house, lands one hit for 7 damage, and gerard and fisher lead matt on a town wide chase ending in gerards house where once again a window stops the deathraging werewolf cold in his tracks.
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Post by Drozgul on Dec 16, 2009 4:21:44 GMT -5
This is exactly why if we ever bind a spirit and know in advance we don't want anyone to get to it we simply bring something simple like a shot glass, and BAM! at least we know WE can't set it free!
Now if only we had any idea what to do next, since each and every act of try fails epically into a ripple effect from hell. I vote for moving to Fail City, at least then we know ahead of time that the chance of fail is not just huge, its imminent.
By the way, Matt, Gerard, Val, (yes that makes me Fisher for anyone outside of the game reading) do any of you truly understand our purpose? Cause I am not sure I ever knew what it was, or maybe I just lost sight of it. But something tells me striking down Corporate America is bad juju. I'm just sayin', thats what I think.
If Sheetz falls, 20 people lose jobs, jobs we need. If Mom and Pop buy back the station from Sheetz, they cannot afford to emply that many people, nor should they be expected to. I am not saying we should FEED the corporate monster, just that progress is a must, we are not in a time where populations grow, not diminish. Its not D&D where the little villages fall to plague and die off, or Warhammer where shock troops can take over your cities just because they outnumber you. This is the modern world, where more people means more mouths to feed, and more need for work, and income.
Aside of that, didn't our actions at Burger King ripple into one of our neighbors shooting and killing her husband? This is why it is hard to grasp a goal for us. We do good, and bad happens. We do nothing and worse happens. We fail to do good (otherwise known as angering or encouraging bad) and our lives become a virtual Hell.
I mean, how is it that I've been a werewolf for nearly five years and yet I had no idea that our town was so depressed that it had little wounds all over, and that I have never seemed to notice its residual effects? My apathy toward my community (that I cling to with every fiber of my being) is becoming quite apparent. You guys are pretty new in comparison, so if it goes south (er...more south) you can blame me; I had time to get started on all this before you came, and did nothing. Perhaps this is why I still cannot claim Pack Alpha?
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Post by roborob on Dec 18, 2009 19:20:17 GMT -5
well I fell our goal is simple and clear. protect our territory (town) from the dangers that may try to upset the balance of their world. oh and the shot glass is a perfect idea. leaving fail city = good but also = improbable. i am in the group and as you have seen with your own eyes i basically roll the exact opposite of what is needed. required sucess = fail, please fail is deal 7 damage to ally. oh and bk and the shooting aren't directly linked and are 2 seporate fallouts of 2 seporate events. bk was the town hall spirit making its move and the killing was mastrrac the incarna making his move. and pack alpha are you joking. lol you are the closest we have to a leader. it is very democratic and not werewolf ish at all. we work ok as a group but have not carried the werewolf pack ranking at all.
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Post by Drozgul on Dec 19, 2009 4:33:54 GMT -5
Ah, see I had no idea the two weren't linked. That whole Mastrac thing has been slipping past me since its first mention. I know its a problem, but have never had the chance to identify it as such.
If I am a "leader" then I suppose I do not push myself to leadership because I have too many character flaws that do not allow it. In Character, I am just too attached to everything and everyone so stuff gets personal real fast. And apparently I have a knack for making enemies where allies should be. Oh well.
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Post by labael on Dec 21, 2009 18:38:01 GMT -5
*in an amused tone* First off. I thought your goal was to protect the territory. That was what you guys decided long ago on the first game. Like what rob had said.
Second. Your right this isn't D&D. This is the World of Darkness. Every action you have, does have consequences. Be careful what you do. Ask questions. The last problem with the air spirits ended badly because there wasn't a "What are you going to do?". You guys don't ask enough questions and take so much at face value. There is still has been people hiding information but so far that hasn't been detrimental to your game. Oh and steph's downtime actions had the biggest good effects on your territory.
Third: Brian the character flaws and caution on the different character are not bad things.
Fourth: You are all doing very well. Ironically everything has somehow been setting everything in place in ways I never imagined. I had some loose set of ideas for the game that really didn't relate but now they do/will.
Fifth: The wounds are "new". The massive negativity. "new". Depression, well that has been mostly started due to the hard times of this decade.
Sixth: When an enemy is mentioned rarely. . .usually denotes a behind the scenes big baddy. FYI. Don't forget them. The Lord of Envy. The Bloody Bank. I treat this game as a mystery. The biggest hints are mentioned only once. Make sure you discuss the game with other characters. Everyone sees a different part of the puzzle.
Seventh: Not everything relates to everything. If it did it wouldn't be the realistic confusion that reality would concoct. There are people in the real world living their lives with their own goals. Those goals and lives could affect our own. Some don't. There are red herrings to through you off the scent.
Now wolf cubs don't get discouraged. You live in a world of horror, but you are learning and growing.
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Post by Drozgul on Dec 22, 2009 1:17:53 GMT -5
I am glad to see that Tony, thank you.
I like that the game is hard and confusing, and that mine and Rob's little rant has sparked us to talk back and forth on what's going on in game a bit...if even just on this thread, or during his cig breaks.
I had very much hoped that the other players (at the cue I gave them) would comment here on what's going on, and maybe even use it as a tool to think together in our downtime, since game time is a lot faster paced, and we seldom seem to discuss with each other what we're going to do next...
Guys, seriously, we gotta change that. If that is the ONLY leader-like thing I ever do, I am asking we act like a pack, and discuss our goal for upcoming sessions. Try to make a plan, so its easier to roll with the punches and such. We don't have to map out strategies, or go paint balling together (even though that would be fun) but we need to find the team within us, and somehow bring back the flow we had when we were building up the back story together. When we created Wetpaw, and all of that, yeah, that's what I'm looking for. We were on the same page then, and dividing our minds too much is going to tear us out of the same book, and likely fast.
So, can you all try to see about discussing these items in and out of character? Maybe having a little chat pre-sessions, and maybe even post-sessions since Tony gives us all the time in the world for exactly that, to toss around some of this and be a unified element? That's what we need guys, not necessarily to agree, though that helps, but be more in the know. Less lack of communication that breeds secrets (intentional or non-intentional), that's vampire $h*t. We're a pack, a team, a family, we're all we have when it comes to truth.
(Wow, how's that for a motivational speech eh? lol)
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Post by labael on Dec 22, 2009 20:58:02 GMT -5
I think that is exactly what is needed.
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Fenix
Journeyman
Who in the hell do you think I am?
Posts: 162
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Post by Fenix on Dec 23, 2009 13:31:15 GMT -5
Bael, I thought that I DID ask North wind what his plans where? And I also thought that we mentioned that it was the Lord of Envy pushing things this way?? If you don't remember me asking oh well, but I was pretty sure I had asked those question (weather you heard them is different, or if I just let them drop and not chase after the goal).
Rob, Droz,
I thought our goal was to protect, In and Out of character I feel our Mentor pack didn't mention many of the challenges we are currently facing. We have dealt with little things so far, and that has left us unprepared for what is going on. Honestly we are learning as we go right now, but that's how I am viewing this. Also "we" I include myself very heavily here, don't think that far ahead, we tend to be in the moment thinkers.
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Post by Drozgul on Dec 23, 2009 15:31:37 GMT -5
Well, as adrenaline-based "Moon-Jockeys" we are in the right to think in the moment for the most part. The Auspice of Elodoth who weigh and measure each circumstance is not among us, so we have to compensate somehow.
Also, I did know that the main goal originally was to be protectors. I just felt like maybe we were missing something huge somewhere that felt like it ought to have been obvious somehow.
The "mentor" pack...sorry, but honestly I think we need to consider them out of the picture. They are for the most part "tolerant" of us, and honestly that is an insult to me. I don't need a buddy, but Harry was who showed me the way, the path. And helped me discover how to handle my situation. I understand his need to push me out for numbers' sake and safety, but to get huffy about us "calling an awful lot lately" is a slap in the face.
I am not interested in making him an enemy, however my current viewpoint is just to forget about him and his pack entirely. Perhaps had I put a dot or two in him, things would be different, but it is what it is. I'm just glad his "rules" are simple.
The tornado battle was a little upsetting, primarily because I felt helpless. Like we were supposed to be doing something else since the storm fight was going on, and the odds seemed impossible. But people died, and so we failed in a way. Casualties in this case, army boys, are not the "acceptable loss" type in my opinion. Sure we have to move on, but they never even had a clue what was coming, or how to deal with it.
Anyways, this is getting long, and we still have yet to hear from Val, so hopefully that will change. Until then...anyone got a plan for after all the funerals?
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Post by roborob on Dec 25, 2009 1:26:01 GMT -5
ok a few quick discussion points. i want feed back on this. 1. WTF is the bloody, blood bank! that is gonna determine what max's role is ally or enemy. 2. i don't like all the wild cards. veronica max 3. Harry is NOT Matt's mentor and after the last few discussions with him... well he isn't high on the ask this guy list. 4. we know the town hall spirit is very scared of the mage that made him claming he has out grown his purpose. i think that is a lie! he was scared of max who we found out wasn't the one that made him. So Why is he scared of mages and not werewolves? 5. how to take care of sheetz. i think all we need is to get the owner to forsake the franchise in hopes of larger gains running it as a private buisness. maybe convence the town hall spirit to give him some tax breaks or maybe some money for making it a local buisness. 6. how are we gonna fix that stupid air dicks mess. 7. I hate that raven that is following us/me. who is it, what is it, why is it following us. like tony said the little things. and red herrings.... 8. where is mastraac and what is the eaisest way to get him to stop trashing our territory? 9. why is veronica so interested in stuff about this town and making it better if she is only here for another month or two? and i don't like a were without a pack, just ercks me. 10. Who smashed the chocolate chip cookies? i just thought that 10 is better than 9 and a joke would end well.
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Fenix
Journeyman
Who in the hell do you think I am?
Posts: 162
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Post by Fenix on Dec 25, 2009 17:46:16 GMT -5
1)We have not figured out what the blood bank is, though so far I think that it is something not good, There is no way as of yet for us to have figured that out IMO.
2)They are know wild cards, though I am far more at ease with Veronica then Max.
3)I only referred to them as a mentor pack cause they helped us get started, where we could have completely started from nothing.
4+5, well YOU agreed to his deal, thus making the choice for the pack since we do our level to work together in deals made. Either focus on being for him, or against. personally I am not one for furthering his goals by destroying businesses but again that's just me.
6) I have already dealt and yelled at the air elements, but remember the connection is threw me, so if you are gonna yell at anyone yell at G, and point the anger towards the lord of Envy.
7)next time shoot the raven, you have a gun and can make a excuse for shooting it as a game warden
8)Mastrack, who knows. All the answers that we have gotten with take has been unhelpful at best. HE is the reason the air elements where out of order.
9)Dunno, maybe cause she goes by the rule of dont shit where you eat?? Or could be just be helpful, again I don't have a issue with her
10) ask Fisher
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Lady Masquerade
Journeyman
Look into my eyes. Do you see who I see?
Posts: 174
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Post by Lady Masquerade on Dec 26, 2009 10:27:53 GMT -5
Okay, at the request of Droz on this thread, I will say my piece. I thought I had made my opinions well-known, but I will reiterate.
It is my opinion both ICly and OOCly that WE DON'T BELONG IN THE SPIRIT REALM UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Now I know I'm opening myself up for long-winded rants about how that's the whole basis for the game of Werewolf in the first place, but here is the reasoning for this line of thinking.
We've lived in this world, the material world, in this town for nearly 20 years without even the knowledge of the existence of the spirit world. Now as soon as we've changed and realized what we are, now we're gallivanting around in an unknown, unfamiliar world that we still know pretty much diddly squat about. It's like everyone forgot that we could actually accomplish things in the material world and that as soon as we have a problem we have to Gauntlet-hop our way through every situation. And in case no one's noticed, but almost all of our actions on the spirit realm has resulted in people, REAL PEOPLE, getting hurt and dying. And you say that you're protecting the community, but all I see is us running around like a bunch of headless chickens while taking directions from other spirits, things that we still don't understand their reasoning, motives, or even their own capabilities.
I don't care who has how many dots in "Occult" or anything else that makes you think you have a smidgen of understanding of these spirits and how things are done in their world, but we are all still new werewolves. The only one who might have a chance of seeing how things work in my opinion is Fisher, because he's been at this for five years, but even he doesn't seem all that keen on being in the spirit realm more than he has to, but also because he has the double realm sight/vision ability, and he can actually see how spirits' actions actually affect this world, and vice versa. The rest of us have to do something and then cross over to see the consequences, which thus far, have been traumatic.
As far as the whole mayor-riding spirit wanting us to get rid of the corporate entities, I have said it before, and I will say it again, I NEVER EVER agreed to do this, and as far as one person agreeing to it, thus obliging the whole pack to do his bidding, is complete and utter bull$hit. We've made the arguments that corporations are not evil, that they provide jobs and benefits for the people in our town, small as it may be, who by the way are the ones we're supposed to be concerned about, not the corporate-paranoid mayor spirit. The mom & pop's shops cannot and will not be able to provide the same sort security as the bigger chains. And in 20 years when Ma & Pa can't run their little gas station anymore, if no one in town wants to buy it from them or has the money to make them a decent offer for it, who do you think is going to buy it? Another big name will, and then we have another big chain come in like Exxon or Sunoco, or maybe something entirely different, but the point is that we are living in the 21st century, and in this day and age, progress cannot be stopped, and to try to is pretty much futile, not to mention unnecessary especially since most of the time I hear rather violent ways of driving out the business. Sinking the Burger King and blowing up Sheetz isn't really a way to PROTECT the people of the town who happen to be working inside them, now is it? And what the hell do you think werewolves in other parts of the country do?? Do you honestly think that packs in New York City, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, or Orlando are really concerned about getting rid of the 17th Starbucks in their city? Or that Denny's is going to bring about their imminent demise? NO. If they are as concerned about their territory and the people in their community as WE claim to be, I'll bet they're out there patrolling the streets and dealing with the people themselves, not traipsing through the spirit world trying to bring down multi-million dollar businesses. And by the way, I talked to Veronica about the kids attitudes, and she said the teachers were concerned because the kids are basically depressed and angry because of home situations, most of which is based around our current economy right now. So if you go destroying Sheetz and put 20-30 people out of work, how do you think those kids' attitudes are going to change? And then you wonder why there is a plethora of anger and sadness spirits hovering over our town.
Will there be times when our presence is needed in the spirit world? Yes. But not every 5 freakin' minutes. In case no one else noticed, which they must not have even though Bael said it himself just a few posts above, but the actions I took IN THE MATERIAL WORLD during my two weeks of downtime had "THE BIGGEST GOOD AFFECTS ON OUR TERRITORY". (I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I am trying to enforce a point that it feels like everyone is overlooking.) "We've" (I say 'we' because I've been dragged into some of these situations not voluntarily, but because I'm getting tired of the "Would you just get over here and be part of the pack?" looks when I say I'd rather not) tried to fix some situations through the spirit side of things. Attacking the anger and death spirits in Burger King led to only worse things, some of which I can't remember because I fell asleep but heard about afterward. I think you all were trying to chase down and attack some sort of spirits when Matt went into death rage and nearly killed Gerard. And then there's our latest fiasco with the air spirits that has caused a HURRICANE IN RURAL PENNSYLVANIA AND LEFT A PRETTY HEFTY DEATH COUNT ON THE MATERIAL WORLD. Now in comparison, my measly little do-gooder decision to try and spread holiday cheer to the PEOPLE of the town might seem like a drop in the bucket in grand scheme of things, but in case you've forgotten, the GM TOLD YOU that when you entered the spirit realm later, THAT THERE WERE FEWER ANGER SPIRITS AND THE ONES THERE WERE SMALLER AND WEAKER. Now if I remember my math correctly, and put 2 and 2 together, that equals MATERIAL WORLD ACTIONS HAVE AN AFFECT ON THE SPIRIT REALM. Why are we not using this logic when our spirit realm actions have caused grief and usually worse situations to fix??
Does anyone other than me recall that day we went to Burger King after the fight broke out between the employees? Do you remember when Fisher described what he saw with his Double Realm Sight? That there were anger spirits attacking any joy/happiness spirits that entered the building? Did anyone associate that with anything happening in our world? I know Fisher and I did, even though the GM didn't specifically say so. We saw a child coming into the restaurant, happy and carefree and excited about getting his Kids' Meal toy. Then he trips and falls down, possibly hurts himself. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't see spirits as these freeform things that just hover around and cause whatever they're associated with to happen, like a bunch of little imps, but that they have as much of an affect on us as we do on them. We've all seen this happen, but I get the feeling that not all of us are actually paying attention.
I know that this is my own long-winded rant, but I'm pretty sure I've said all these things before and either haven't been heard, or just haven't been given the same amount of consideration for whatever reason. You can take all of this in and either take what I say seriously, and what I say in character as Val seriously, or just continue to do what we've been doing, probably without my help. Just because I made a character who works in a beauty salon and isn't THE brightest crayon in the box does not mean I will settle for being Daphne in our little Scooby Gang. And if that's what it gets pushed to, so be it. Just know that it's still gonna hurt when she kicks Scrappy in the balls. I know if things keep going the way they have been, pack or no pack, she will do what she thinks is best, no matter what it takes.
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Fenix
Journeyman
Who in the hell do you think I am?
Posts: 162
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Post by Fenix on Dec 26, 2009 13:46:58 GMT -5
-Gerald pokes head from back of couch-
"Is it safe yet?"
-shifts to wolf form, walk to Val looks with puppy eyes and whines-
Wow Lady you must have been holding that in for awhile. And i can't really say that there is room to argue with anything that you have said so far. As you know as males we tend to jump a idea and run with it, and often we go for what looks like the one that makes the most sense at the time. I think I have mention to Droz once we leap with out thinking and kinda have a lemming mind set.
But none the less you are right, and I will do my best to not jump to the easy route from now on (even though it looks fun).
And since my last solo actions brought this mess on, i vote you over all pack leader, or at the very least our mediator. This way we can stop and think about our actions.
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Lady Masquerade
Journeyman
Look into my eyes. Do you see who I see?
Posts: 174
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Post by Lady Masquerade on Dec 26, 2009 14:04:36 GMT -5
*comes down from her Gauru-rant form and pets Ger* Sorry, didn't mean to scare you.
And I will hold any further comment until I see some other replies.
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Post by roborob on Dec 26, 2009 15:27:44 GMT -5
Ok not all of our spirit world treks have ended baddly. actually only one did and if we had not done that the whole town would be leveled! Without your spirit world walkings we wouldn't know half of what we know now and there would be soooo many more problems than there are. And well sorry but if you would actually play a whole session you would have been included in the decision to ally with the town hall spirit and Alex if you had spoken up your opinon would have been heard at the time. me and brian were for it and I though since you never said anything you agreeded too. I did agree to help the town hall spirit as long as it didn't hurt the people and it hasn't. and no taking away a major name and replacing it with a family name doesn't always work but it can work fine. look at how many local buisnesses in this area thrive in the midst of corporate entities. and fire bombing sheetz was a joke and always was.
no most weres could care less about corporations and we don't either we are scratching the back that is scratching ours. attacking the anger spirits at bk lead to meeting the town hall spirit and gaining a locust. is that a "worse" thing?? i don't think.
Not chaseing the air spirits EARLIER lead to the hurricane, not chacing them.
ok yeah there were less and they were smaller. why? cause the fricken air spirits were EATING them and making the situation that caused the hurricane. Absence doesn't mean the problem is fixed. If the enemy isn't seen it's and AMBUSH!
In a perfect world our actions would always bring shiny joy spirits i will call care bears. but in a REALITY based game you fight what you can find. yeah you will always bring some harm. but the butterfly effect states that you just whiped out the town. Your newly saved care bear spirit is food for mastraac who gains power and eats the town hall spirit and devours the town. ripples in the pond are impossible to predict. we HAVE to do what we can. i have no gift that shower anger spirits with rainbows and makes them joy spirits but i do have claws that can rend their bodies. we are warriors! either way you look at it. I feel that what we have done collectivly has been good so far. i don't agree with all the events but all in all we are doing our best.
what i am saying is I WILL NOT BE AN OSTRICH WITH MY HEAD IN THE SAND! I will go to where i have to do what i have to.
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