Post by Drozgul on May 28, 2010 0:02:14 GMT -5
Is Iona a cheap victory? Hell yes, most of the time. Is she hard as hell to play in most decks? You bet your ass. Can I take her out of the deck? Make me a trade worthy, and she's yours, I don't need her. I can always insert a Meglonoth, or some such.
Besides, we both know my plays are as easy and/or difficult to work against as any loop. A simple counter spell is good enough to stop either most of the time, so I don't think you can turn the table and say my play is much worse. Archangel is easy to kill, "Destroy creature", "Destroy attacking creature", "Destroy target non-legend", or just play a big flier against her and block. Aether vial is just an artifact, that has to stay in turn for at least FIVE turns to matter...so um...yeah, fairly easy to get rid of. Also, Plaguewind only plays for free IF the Archangel deals damage to an opponent, so, in fact you can prevent the damage, kill the creature, or counter the spell...that was cut and paste, which can be easier than wrecking most good loops.
The ones I play are very much not sudden as well. Its been described as a steam roller, where you have plenty of time to get out of the way, or be finally flattened. As soon as a loop drops, the player controlling usually drops it, follows the steps of his/her loop once, and declares victory. So, yeah I'm gonna say that's different. Its up to the other players to make him explain it so they can do something about it. Which leads me to my next point.
For fairness, since fairness seems to be in some demand, it appears I have only one option here.
I will choose to redirect my hate only to those players suggested above who give up as soon as a loop drops and will allow themselves or others to lose a game when they have a possible chance to stop said loop from ending the game. Yes, this also applies to myself, should it ever occur. I cannot even count the number of times hands are shown after the game and one person looks over and says, "Why didn't you play that? The game could still be going."
However, this shift of hate will only be 90%, which I feel is fair, since I am quite tired of the usual and incessant groaning I hear every time I wish to play my best deck(s), which happens to be one of only six or seven decks I own in total as compared to a myriad of selections I typically see brought by other players. (a guy I was just introduced to owns at least seven decks from each edition since Atiquities...disgusting, but impressive.) Not to mention, my best deck is the most edited deck I own, meaning most of you will rarely play against it twice the same way.
I would gladly love to own a copy of each version I've built to show off where it came from to get where it is. Or even just a few more decks that were worth hitting the table, but I know what I'm competing with, and I come to play a good game.
I do understand that while its a little juvenile to express hate on a characteristic of victory (and no I do not often give up or declare that I have lost a game until my last card is played and my life drops below twenty, I would like to think I am a better sport than that), I also find it a little convenient at times for many players to simply objectify nearly every game as a hobby/time sink, that may or may not have particular rules which are easy to always overlook because we're too lazy to look it up, or because it doesn't matter to at least half the players at the time. And I find often enough that those very same players who will slack on a rule in a well written card game, are very fast to criticize my oversight or "misuse" of rules in a role-playing game in which every one of them seems to contain a clear and crisp slew of information allowing for fiat and elasticity.
In my experience I feel that I've lost more games from a table-wide misunderstanding or apathy of how a single card is played (more than just recently) and because of that perhaps I enjoy it more as a competition of who plays better as opposed to who is less lazy, or less impoverished nearly always seeming the victor of these games.
During my most recent teaching session with Randy, he re-ignited my want for more strict rulings for the sake of more accurate and competitive play. I am less likely to be the ogre at the table who demands said rulings, but I like his energy coming into a new game. He has a very "don't water it down for me" attitude, and I think every person wanting to play a new game should come in with that sort of fire. I do like to let things go, and allow replays, so that everyone can see how mechanics work correctly, and so that the best plays are always made so the very best game may be played each time (yes that's a"may" not a must, lol).
Long post here, I apologize, I'm sure I get as many groans at my posts as I do when I pull the elf or graveyard deck (not much of a graveyard deck at all anymore by the way, now called "Insatiable Disfiguration"), but here is my close for now; I feel that my hate toward an infinite loop is no different than any player having hate for any single mechanic that WoTC uses in any of its wide variety of games available. An example of this might be MtG's "Unearth", or D&D's Vow of Poverty Monk (or even just the basic 3.0 Monk). Are they really so terrible? No, but that doesn't mean I can't like what I like and dislike what I dislike. You can call it the same, and so can I, but that doesn't make it the same.
Besides, we both know my plays are as easy and/or difficult to work against as any loop. A simple counter spell is good enough to stop either most of the time, so I don't think you can turn the table and say my play is much worse. Archangel is easy to kill, "Destroy creature", "Destroy attacking creature", "Destroy target non-legend", or just play a big flier against her and block. Aether vial is just an artifact, that has to stay in turn for at least FIVE turns to matter...so um...yeah, fairly easy to get rid of. Also, Plaguewind only plays for free IF the Archangel deals damage to an opponent, so, in fact you can prevent the damage, kill the creature, or counter the spell...that was cut and paste, which can be easier than wrecking most good loops.
The ones I play are very much not sudden as well. Its been described as a steam roller, where you have plenty of time to get out of the way, or be finally flattened. As soon as a loop drops, the player controlling usually drops it, follows the steps of his/her loop once, and declares victory. So, yeah I'm gonna say that's different. Its up to the other players to make him explain it so they can do something about it. Which leads me to my next point.
For fairness, since fairness seems to be in some demand, it appears I have only one option here.
I will choose to redirect my hate only to those players suggested above who give up as soon as a loop drops and will allow themselves or others to lose a game when they have a possible chance to stop said loop from ending the game. Yes, this also applies to myself, should it ever occur. I cannot even count the number of times hands are shown after the game and one person looks over and says, "Why didn't you play that? The game could still be going."
However, this shift of hate will only be 90%, which I feel is fair, since I am quite tired of the usual and incessant groaning I hear every time I wish to play my best deck(s), which happens to be one of only six or seven decks I own in total as compared to a myriad of selections I typically see brought by other players. (a guy I was just introduced to owns at least seven decks from each edition since Atiquities...disgusting, but impressive.) Not to mention, my best deck is the most edited deck I own, meaning most of you will rarely play against it twice the same way.
I would gladly love to own a copy of each version I've built to show off where it came from to get where it is. Or even just a few more decks that were worth hitting the table, but I know what I'm competing with, and I come to play a good game.
I do understand that while its a little juvenile to express hate on a characteristic of victory (and no I do not often give up or declare that I have lost a game until my last card is played and my life drops below twenty, I would like to think I am a better sport than that), I also find it a little convenient at times for many players to simply objectify nearly every game as a hobby/time sink, that may or may not have particular rules which are easy to always overlook because we're too lazy to look it up, or because it doesn't matter to at least half the players at the time. And I find often enough that those very same players who will slack on a rule in a well written card game, are very fast to criticize my oversight or "misuse" of rules in a role-playing game in which every one of them seems to contain a clear and crisp slew of information allowing for fiat and elasticity.
In my experience I feel that I've lost more games from a table-wide misunderstanding or apathy of how a single card is played (more than just recently) and because of that perhaps I enjoy it more as a competition of who plays better as opposed to who is less lazy, or less impoverished nearly always seeming the victor of these games.
During my most recent teaching session with Randy, he re-ignited my want for more strict rulings for the sake of more accurate and competitive play. I am less likely to be the ogre at the table who demands said rulings, but I like his energy coming into a new game. He has a very "don't water it down for me" attitude, and I think every person wanting to play a new game should come in with that sort of fire. I do like to let things go, and allow replays, so that everyone can see how mechanics work correctly, and so that the best plays are always made so the very best game may be played each time (yes that's a"may" not a must, lol).
Long post here, I apologize, I'm sure I get as many groans at my posts as I do when I pull the elf or graveyard deck (not much of a graveyard deck at all anymore by the way, now called "Insatiable Disfiguration"), but here is my close for now; I feel that my hate toward an infinite loop is no different than any player having hate for any single mechanic that WoTC uses in any of its wide variety of games available. An example of this might be MtG's "Unearth", or D&D's Vow of Poverty Monk (or even just the basic 3.0 Monk). Are they really so terrible? No, but that doesn't mean I can't like what I like and dislike what I dislike. You can call it the same, and so can I, but that doesn't make it the same.